5 Habits Killing Your Church's Culture

In this episode, the guys break down 5 ways church culture gets KILLED from leadership drama to fake smiles in the foyer. 🙃 Whether it’s cliques in the choir, over-scheduled volunteers, or “we’ve always done it this way” syndrome, we’re calling it out (with love, of course). 💒❤️

If your church feels more like a boardroom than a body, this one's for you. Let’s laugh, learn, and maybe revive the vibe a little. 😎

Respond to the episode! Let us know what you think!

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

you

SPEAKER_01: 0:08

Welcome to the Two Young Pastors podcast. This episode, we're talking about culture killers. And number three will make you want to unsubscribe. But you want to stick with us. You want to stick with us because it is going to challenge you and me. And we want to hear from you as well. So you want to make sure you like, share, and subscribe and comment so that we can hear from you. I'm joined, as always, the other half of the Two Young Pastors is none other than Jawan. What's What's

SPEAKER_00: 0:40

up, bro? How's your day going? They indeed are asking questions as to why they feel funny about their church. And I believe that what we're going to be talking about today, it directly answers why you may feel funny about your church. So I'm feeling good, man. How are you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. And, you know, we were just working through the why of this episode is that you're going to be transitioning soon. And these are some of the tests that that we look for as pastors when we go into a church. These are just a few of them. We just got together and said, hey, if you want to do a quick grading of your church, these are five things that you can do right now to grade your church. So if you want to put it on a scale from one to five and then allow yourself to grade your church of the, all right, do I have this? Do I have that? Where would your church fall into it? And you can give your, your church a grade. And then we could talk about how to fix those things as well. So we're just excited to go right into this because this is what we do as pastors to help to correct and to grow our churches. We're calling it culture killers because churches are cultures, man. As much as people don't want to admit it, there is a social fabric in our churches. There is a leadership fabric, man. And all of those apply into getting people into our church, assimilating them and allowing them to be the best possible Let's get right into it, man. on a team and you've been in a meeting for like 20 minutes and you don't know what the point of the conversation

SPEAKER_00: 3:02

is? I have. I have. I have. Sometimes it really came in a form of like class projects, those group projects that you had in school where we're just like, what are we doing here? Like we're just talking. But I certainly have. I certainly have. And I have a feeling that you've probably been in a few of those as well, right? Yeah. Man, I have been in

SPEAKER_01: 3:22

a lot of them through college too, bro, where it's just like, even in seminary, to be honest. It's like, what are we doing here? And I had that about some classes too, of like, what is the point of this class? There was no clear objectives, no clear discernment about what we're doing here. And when we're talking about vision, really what it is, is what is the destination that the church is working towards? So if your church does not have a, at the end of this year, this is what we are looking to do. And the thing is like, I'm not talking about I'm not talking about building projects. I'm not talking about any capital improvement projects. Those are good, right? Some tangible things that you can work towards. I'm talking about what are some visions that you as a church want to do, right? That directly contribute to growth in your culture. So whether it's, hey, at the end of the year, we want to have a team of 50 competent greeters, right? Yeah. that know that one person can't leave outside of our church without being said hello to. Because that is something that we'll explore a bit. But the number one for our culture killers that we identified first is lack of vision, bro. I'm not sure if you've ever been in a church where they have banners up you know, saying, hey, we want to have, this is the vision of our church.

SPEAKER_00: 4:57

Right. There are core values. Those types of banners. Yes. Where it identifies like what the mission is and what the vision is. I have been in, yes, my church actually has like, it has the mission and vision on the wall. It has it on the wall. So yes, I've been in there. Why do you ask? So

SPEAKER_01: 5:15

those are good, right? Like every organization needs a mission statement and a vision statement. Yeah. What I found is if your church is meeting every Saturday or for those in other denominations on Sunday and you don't have a clear goal that year, you're missing out on something. You're missing out on growth.

UNKNOWN: 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:44

And the reason that I say that is because we as individuals were only bought into a certain organization when we see where it's going and we're bought into the destination. So we do a better job of having a destination, whether it's, Hey, this year we're going to have eight Vespers. That's our vision this year. That's our objective this year that falls within whatever your overall

SPEAKER_00: 6:08

mission of your church is. You know, bro, I want to, I want to say that like, Understand that like your vision as a church at the end of the day, it should be a reflection of the culture of the church. Like whatever you're building to within your church body, it somehow some way should speak to the type of culture that you're trying to build upon, that you're trying to strengthen within your church. And so to your point, you know, the question you would ask, well, why do we want to have 50 greeters? Well, you would probably say that we want individuals to feel welcomed. We want individuals to feel like, hey, this is home. This is community. And so, you know, depending on like the culture that your leadership team, that your pastors, that your elders, that they're trying to build at your church, you know, that will indeed be able to give insight as to the type of vision that you should try to adopt, the type of goals that you should be trying to work towards within your church in a set year or even within a season or slash quarter within the year. So, yeah, I I just wanted to add

SPEAKER_01: 7:07

that, man. Yeah, yeah. Man, what's the other

SPEAKER_00: 7:10

culture killer? Yeah, man. Second culture killer that I think we got to talk about is the lack of relevance within the church. I think that at a certain point in time, for certain groups of people, church stopped being relevant. It stopped being relevant. And I think it stopped being relevant because the church, to a certain extent, depending on where you're from, it stopped... speaking to the relevant things that are happening in your life. At a certain point in time, the community, which was the church, it was founded to be a safe space for several individuals to be able to gather together and to also be able to find individuals who were going through like-minded things, especially within the Black community. The church was a pillar in making sure that certain civil rights movements were taking off and being sustained. The church really helped out with that because in in church, you would hear sermons and messages about the rights that we should have, the rights that we deserve, and the value that is in alignment with our lives. Yet, man, I don't know about you, but I've noticed that there's been somewhat of a shift that's been taking place in a lot of our churches, where it's not so much about how can we make the lives of everyone around us better. I don't know about you, but I've seen so many individual churches grow because they're now focused on how can you live your best life here? And I think that's different from what it used to be, bro. It's very different from what it used to be. Rather than talking about how God indeed is calling us to be individuals who fight against certain systems, it's now about, well, God, how is God going to help me live in my purpose? God, how are you going to help me get my dream job? How are you going to help me find bae? And so rather than us living like Yeah. The Lord is coming back soon. The Lord is coming back soon, which is great. But some individuals don't know how to balance it with what we're going through right now. And the truth is, is one of the things that keeps people in church more than not, more than anything, is that the church and God and the Bible always provided answers so that we would understand why we're going through the things that we are going through. And so, bro, just to start us off for number two, I would say that, man, the church is struggling with relevance within our community. What about you, man?

SPEAKER_01: 10:02

It is not like just right there, to be honest. Yeah. I had a conversation this past week with someone that was like, Hey, why, why do some churches have more, more prominent in political views? And they talk about one administration over the other. And then I replied back and I said, it's because the other half of the church is silent. And, and one, And the other side of the church has to speak as if it's two voices because the other side is so silent. And a part of what I loved about the way that I was taught evangelism is that what we're really asking people to do, right, is to see the world from a different perspective. So when we're talking about how people cope with death, Because it's a reality we have, right? We as a church are taking away the idea, especially in Adventism, right? That when you die, your soul goes up into heaven, right? We're taking that key understanding away from people, right? And then as an evangelist, what you do is you give them another key of understanding and say, hey, this key was okay, but here's a better key. to understand the world around you. And it's that your loved one is not actually up in heaven, watching you in pain, right? They're waiting for the same thing that you are waiting for right now. And a part of you that, that, that wants to see them needs to make sure that just, just like they're sealed in Christ, that you eventually are sealed in him as well. And you stay sealed with him, right? So it's just like, Hey, if we're taking away a key of understanding, whether it's, a behavior, whether it's a emotion, right? Whether it's a job, you need, we need to be relevant enough to give them something to replace that hole in their life with. And man, I heard that from someone who was a investor and he's like, I went down to church and he said, I, I was a 14 year old and I prayed in a pew. And then he said, I didn't hear anything.

SPEAKER_00: 12:13

He

SPEAKER_01: 12:14

said, I didn't hear God. And then he said, but the church down the street, they taught a prayer that was more, that was more thinking through logical prayer. And then he said they had an understanding that helped them work through life while me and my church, I didn't teach that. And then what really broke my heart, man, is he said, He said, and then I looked at the Hinduism and I looked at the Buddhism. And this guy is a billionaire, right? And I was like, man, we as a church had someone that God gave us with the mental capacity to invest and become a billionaire. And we lost him because we didn't give him the keys to understanding life, to help him live through life with God, not just pulling life from him, man.

SPEAKER_00: 13:05

That's good. Man, you know, I'm happy that you said that. I'm happy that you said, but man, you know what I'm even more excited about? I'm excited about this third one. Now we said before, number three is going to shock some people and it might make a couple of people upset. Okay. But here's our third one. Elijah, what's the third church killer, the third culture killer that we want to identify today?

SPEAKER_01: 13:27

The third culture killer that will probably make you unsubscribe is your competing priorities.

SPEAKER_00: 13:35

Unpack them.

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

You have competing priorities with God. Now, here's what I mean by that. Let me just give you a quick breakdown of what our week looks like, because most of us probably go to church on the weekend, right? And it's between an hour and a half to three hours, right? That's your short church service to probably the longest service. that you'll probably encounter, right? So here is the breakdown. You have about 168 hours in your week, right? That's 24 hours a day, seven days a week, right? You have 168 hours a week. And your standard work week is about 40 hours, right? Where you're able to have, your job is requiring you 40 hours of work, right? That might be flexible depending on what you do, but this is the general thing, right? And most people sleep around, give or take eight hours, hopefully, If you're within that five hours, do a bit better, right? So that's totaling about 56 hours per week. And we're talking about that also includes 10 to 20 hours of eating, going to work, right? And then your personal hygiene. So we're talking about about 10 to 20 hours. So that leaves us with about give or take 48 hours to 72 hours of free time per week, bro. So We have 168 hours. That breaks down after all the things you have to do to about two to three days worth of free time throughout the week. Then you then prioritize what you want to do in those 48 to 72 hours. And what I have a hard time believing is that in those 48 to 72 hours, you can't give up an hour and a half Spending time with people that believe in the same thing you do.

SPEAKER_00: 15:27

Yes. Listen, man, can I tell you how I just started reading this book? One of my friends in ministry, Pastor Eric Bell, he shared this book with me called Free to Focus, right? Free to Focus, written by Michael Hyatt, I believe. What's so interesting about this is that he was sharing that in this book, there are so many different things that are competing for our attention throughout the week. And because of this, it is so easy for us to actually get distracted or possibly overwhelmed by all the endless opportunities that we have at our fingertips. And so, you know, as you were going through everything just now and you concluded with the fact that we have about 24, 24 to 48 hours worth of time on our hands where we could really do, let's say, recreational things. I was thinking that after work or after we pick up our kids, after we possibly come from the gym, the truth is that several individuals are not thinking about their church anymore. They're not thinking about, man, how could I connect with my community? How can I connect with my people? Many times, individuals are simply trying to look for a source, look for a resource that can help them recoup from their day, right? And so because of that, you find several individuals, rather than actually doing things that build them up, they find things that can help give them dopamine. And so rather than calling up sister so-and-so or brother so-and-so or elder so-and-so because you want to intentionally make sure that you are growing in community or helping towards a project that your church is doing, a lot of times we can find ourselves on social media, bro. We can find ourselves scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. And if we're not careful, bro, the truth is that some of us can even have conversations with certain people who we don't need to be having conversations with. And the reason is because when you do not have have a list where you are telling yourself, hey, this is what I'm prioritizing in my day. Listen, your activities will find a way to gain control over you rather than you having control over them. You know? And so it's imperative that you somehow find a way to lasso your priorities down so that your day does not get away from you, but so that you can actually have control and command over your day, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 18:10

Yeah, bro. So here's the last thing that I'll say to you. The reason that competing priorities, exactly like you said, is a culture killer. The reason that it's a culture killer, the reason that competing priorities priorities is a culture killer is because a pastor can bring someone into the church, but members keep people in the church. That's right. That's good. The reason that it's a culture killer is because we can bring people into the church as much as we want. Cause we know that our people out there that, that are looking to hear hope and inspiration. Right. But if you come in and the pews are empty or, or, Even worse, and this is worse, the pew is filled with the wrong people, right? Yeah. That person that could have been integrated into a community, right, has either come into a church that's full on the books, but empty in person. Mercy. Or full on the books, right? Yeah. They're introduced to the wrong people because the right people were busy at home.

SPEAKER_00: 19:20

Mercy. Yeah. Mercy.

SPEAKER_01: 19:23

They're

SPEAKER_00: 19:23

gone. Mercy. They're gone.

SPEAKER_01: 19:25

Man, but that gets us right into number four, though. Talk to us. What's number four, bro?

SPEAKER_00: 19:30

Bad customer service. Ooh, okay, okay. So connected to, connected to, because you said that gets us to number four.

SPEAKER_01: 19:38

The same idea of a culture killer, bro, is this, right? We can invite as many people to church as we want to, but how many times have we ended a relationship with a product or a company because they did not get back to us on the customer service side.

SPEAKER_00: 19:59

Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right. It matters so much,

SPEAKER_01: 20:04

man. It matters. It matters. Bro, have you ever looked up something and then their customer service is so bad that you're like, I don't want anything to do with that company?

SPEAKER_00: 20:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've also been to places and I was just like... Never again. Never again. It's kind of sort of like the difference between Popeye's and Chick-fil-A. Chick-fil-A, you feel like after everything, my pleasure, my pleasure, my pleasure. Would you like extra sauce with that? Would you like extra fries with that? Would you like me to take your kids to Walmart with you? That's Chick-fil-A. But when you go to Popeye's, you don't know what you're going to get from Popeye's. You don't know if it's going to be a... If you say, hey... I don't have any sauce. I don't have any sauce in here. You might get a, so, so, I don't got any sauce in here either. Like, you don't know what you're going to get. Which is why so many people like going to Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_01: 20:59

Bro, that's exactly, it's like, hey, are you, do you want to be a Chick-fil-A church or a Popeye's church, right? Yeah. Has nothing to do with the food. Yo, I love Popeye's food, bro. Like, like right next to Berrien Springs. Yeah. There was this Popeye's that, that like I would go to. But, But it depended on who was there. You weren't

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

allowed to wait 40 minutes, bro. It's supposed to be fast food.

SPEAKER_01: 21:28

At one point, I think I just left the drive-thru because I was like, this is crazy, right? Yeah. But every time I went to Checkpoint, it was consistent. So when we talk about culture killers, right, that is bad customer service, and I tell this to everyone, bro, is like you as a member of your community, local church right you have the responsibility of saying hi to your guests yeah

SPEAKER_00: 21:55

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 21:56

like if you want to turn around be someone that just says hi to your guests because i've talked to so many young adults man that are like i never want to go back to that church because i did not have one person that said hi to me mercy

SPEAKER_00: 22:12

The one thing that the church should be doing, greeting people, especially new people who don't look familiar. Yeah, bro. It's definitely a problem. But I think that ultimately leads us into our fifth and final one. If you don't have a clear vision, if your church is making you feel like it's not relevant, if you have competing priorities, which possibly are a sign that hey, you might also be lacking in customer service, then what it seems like it's ultimately bound in is the fact that you're lacking in purpose. Break that down. The truth is that many of our churches, their culture is dying because The culture of your church is dying because of the fact that there are several people who are there who don't necessarily know why they are there. They're simply going because their parents taught them that this is what they're supposed to do. And the furthest that they got in it is that, hey, it's what the Bible said, but they haven't necessarily made a real personal connection and found a personal why as to why they are still believers, as to why they are still church goers. And because there are so many individuals who have a surface level belief spirituality and a surface level church involvement, there are many individuals who go week in and week out and they miss out on all of these amazing things. Because truth be told, no matter what, if you do not have a clear purpose, a clear why, you won't have a clear vision. And if you can't have a clear vision, you will never be able to see how relevant the church is to your life. In addition, you will never be able to see how important because it's so important, you need to make space and make it a priority. And when you make church a priority, ultimately you will be the church so that you can be the customer service, so that you can be that gentle touch that many individuals are standing in need of. And so, you know, when I think about the fact that there are so many individuals who are liking this, I think, man, it has to be because of that lack of purpose. Those are my thoughts. What about you, man?

SPEAKER_01: 24:22

Yeah, man. Yeah. Like if you are a know what your purpose is, you'll have things pop up on your board meetings that you're just like, why? We lose so much time talking about things that are irrelevant because we don't have a purpose for our church where we spend time bogged down in all these different areas where I found that if we say, hey, this is our purpose, everything else has to fit into it. So there is no question of, Hey, does this outing or does this project? The number one question is how does that fit into what we're trying to do right now? So good. And people can, can figure out by themselves. I can't really bring this up in a meeting because I'm having a hard time fitting it into our purpose. So if your church is focused on growth, and assimilating and developing the kingdom of God, there are some projects that don't really fit into that as you're building out the kingdom of God. If your church is saying, hey, we want to take care of our members and only our members, right? I personally don't think that that's the purpose of the church, but if you as a community get together and say, hey, our goal is to take care of our members, right? Here's... What that does is it frees everyone. So if you're a leader that's going to that church and your mindset is growth and your church has a clear priority of in-reach, right? As a leader, that frees you to go and find another community that aligns with what you believe the church is supposed to do. And man, it's freeing. once you know what the purpose of that church is, bro. So those were just five, what we're

SPEAKER_00: 26:18

calling culture killers. Just five, just five, just five. And listen, you know, there could be more. We know that there are more, but... You know, we shared our five and now we want to hear from you. And so if you are an individual who is involved with the church or you possibly left the church or are looking for a new church and you could possibly identify with any of these, tell us what we're possibly missing. Tell us what else is a culture killer, because I believe that if we indeed are able to root out and be able to discover what these culture killers are. We can share it. We can learn it so that we can find ways around it so that we can overcome it. And so we'd like to hear from you within the chat. Please let us know. Let us know what your thoughts are in these and what you would like to add. Or even email us at the2youngpastors at gmail.com so that we can hear from you. We want to continue this conversation. But ultimately, we want to say thank you so much for joining us for this episode. And listen, we look forward to seeing you at the next one. And so listen, folks enjoy the rest of your day and we are indeed out we're signing off